Ernie Asks:

MY FRIEND WANTS TO KNOW WHAT A 1984 500 SL, A FULLY LOADED CAR WITH BOTH TOPS IN MINT CONDITION, IS WORTH. EVEN BETTER, IT HAS BEEN INDOORS SINCE BOUGHT AND ONLY HAS 9,000.00 MILES. NUMBER 1. DOES ANYBODY WANT TO MAKE AN OFFER AND IF NOT WHAT IS THE VALUE TO ASK?

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, ERNIE

OLSON REPLIES:

For sellers, an excellent “clearing house” for any SL is always the SL MARKET LETTER. The April issue offered no less that eleven privately-imported 500 SL of 1980 – 1989 with mileage as low as 14,870, and prices ranging from $11,500 to $26,750. There are over 200 new Mercedes offerings in every issue.

The 5 Liter V-8 was one of seven engines offered during the unusually long 19 year production of the “107 Body” SL… and in my opinion, of all seven, the 5 liter offers the most punch for the buck! It caused quite a stir between 1980 and 1985 as they have 40% more HP than the only SL available at authorized US M-B dealers during those years; the 380 SL. Americans saw and rented the 500 SL in Europe and discovered they could import and convert them to DOT/EPA specs for less than the 380 SL cost domestically. M-B focused on smaller engines including diesels in those years to avoid CAFE fines imposed by EPA on all car manufacturers failing “fleet average” MPG standards. M-B avoided the fines but lost these sales to determined “performance-oriented” enthusiasts.

For buyers, the 500SL remains a serious option for those model years IF CONDITION HAS BEEN WELL MAINTAINED. First priority is a NEVER rusted body, regardless which engine. ALWAYS inspect them on a hoist and walk away from anything more than minor surface rust! If it passes this first test, drive it for a half hour, not just around the block. Take in on the express way and boulevard. Feel it. Listen. Some old Mercedes feel old. Others remain tight and smooth and civil. Remember too, a good “feel” is only coincidentally correlated to your favorite color! The price range mentioned above is entirely justified, and weak cars of uncertain mileage and no service records are not even worth $5,000 because you can’t reincarnated them for $10,000+ !  Better to pay $15,000+ for a first rate example as a tired car is a personal time-sump too. All that said, these were well made, strong, cars. Ageless styling and about as safe as old cars get!

Patrick Asks:

I am restoring my 280 SE 3.5 Coupe, it is modified to my spec., I had original 76/27 A5-5-Speed-Box ( very rar), Megasquirt EFI, modified cyl.heads and cams, Spax(adjust), 6.3 Offset on front axle with (10 mm not 20 mm plate-steering box and 15 nearer leaf springs like 6.3), 3.92 rear axle (modified to take central spring and normal thrust arm) with brake anti-dive from the air suspenzion cars (welded in chassis) and rear sway bar.
Front brakes with 300mm, substitution of the viscovan with 2 e-van (MSII-driven), water-cooler improved with new type net…
I will made PU-Bushings for the thrust-arms and torsion bar (screw 5mm shortened for early insertion)…
Now I’ve seen the progressive springs which I am looking for some time.
This springs are in progression curve like the air suspension or more progressive? Will it better for me to use the stifter ones?
Can you deliver to Germany or Italy?
Best, Patrick

OLSON REPLIES:

I too am modifying a 111/112 Coupé to my specs, so we should stay in contact with each other. We (too?) are using the 6.3’s 6mm shorter leaf springs on the front of subframe.(per service manual) making a more positive caster measurement causing the handling to feel more reactive. The downside is, the wheel returns to center slower when you let go of the steering, and when traveling down the road the vehicle does not stay as straight on its own. The difference is so subtle I doubt many people would notice. How has technical support been on your Megasquirt II system for fuel injection? Kit is not expensive but I’ve not seen any tech support for Mercedes engines? A qualified “tuner” could get expensive?  MSII is open source which is much harder to set up correctly then a simpler AEM, or MoTec system that has wizards and a basic “questionair” to get the vehicle running safely. Make sure you’re using a wide band o2 sensor. The Autotune add-on works incredibly well, once the vehicle is idling smoothly.  Maybe you’ve already crossed these mile posts?

What modifications have you done to the cylinder head, and what has it  dynoed in at?

In our case we’ve installed an entire AMG V6 (C 32) drive train, including 5 speed paddle shift automatic transmission and C-Class rear subframe with multi-link suspension. With the rear mounted on a subframe installation is straight forward. My chief mechanic is preparing step-by-step instructions (for sale) about the entire engine and drive train project. The C-Class suspension is technically brilliant with both anti-lift and ant-squat geometry. It also has subtle involuntary rear wheel steering on corners. This project is also using the newest Bilstein cockpit adjustable Air Suspension.

As for springs, you’ve explained engine modifications but what type of roads will you be driving upon. What are your comfort expectations. Since we make the coil springs we can build in the exact  progressive rate for your power and type of driving. In some applications we recommend sport springs in front and progressive rate springs in the rear. If you live closer to the mountains you might opt for all sport springs. We’ll make whatever you chose for the same $790 price for a set of four, plus shipping. And yes, we do ship to Europe: FedEx Air adds about $225 to the order (with suitable insurance). Our sport springs are not “harsh” but definitely manage weight better in cornering and hard braking.

Al Erhart Asks:

I have a 2001 SL500 with the Panoramic Roof.  It has been maintained to Mercedes standards.  It has 62,000 miles with new tires.  It has 38,000 miles left on a comprehensive policy for any mechanical problems. What is the value.  It is silver with AMG sports package. Thanks, Al Erhart

John Olson Replies:

It is ‘criminal’ how fast all new cars depreciate! The late, profound, economist Peter Drucker once observed that used cars are the most effective form of egalitarianism in the western world… with so much of a car’s value passed on to 2nd and 3rd owners at depreciated prices. State-of-art technology is very dear indeed. With only 7,750 miles per year your car has many decades of life left in it. Its base price was $83,800 in 2001. This Fall, even with AMG options, you will be lucky to get $18,600.

The SL Market Letter advocates buying cars like yours, not selling them. Consider treating as a family treasure for the next 100 years, and treating it accordingly. They don’t break much, they’re among the safest “old” cars on the road, and its annual maintenance cost would be small fraction of the annual depreciation if you replace it with a new car of ANY brand. Think about it.

John Christian asks:

I have a 1989 300sl and the radio just quit today – however it still makes a loud clicking noise – no LCD display though – and the antennae goes up and down randomly. Is there an easy fix?  If not, what is a good replacement 3rd party radio?

Thanks, John Christian

John Olson Replies:

Your original radio was most likely made by Becker, the primary supplier to Mercedes-Benz since the 1950s (though Blaupunkt was on M-B’s approved options lists in Europe where your 3.0 liter SL was originally sold). Becker’s distinctive fascia is ‘expected’ by Mercedes enthusiasts and ‘foreign’ radios are a negative to the car’s resale speed if not also value. For this reason I would recommend either a) having it repaired by the authorized Becker Repair Center (such as www.beckerautosound.com) or replace it from a recycling company –with another Becker of approximately the same vintage. A source I like is Potomac German Auto (800-275-4405).

Nicolas asks:

So If money was no option / what would be the most desirable color combo on a 1986 300sl. I have the palomino leather interior already. What should i paint the outside of the car. Blue, Red, Silver, White, Black.?

John Olson replies:

The best selling MB exterior colors in the mid-1980s were Light Ivory and Silver Blue Metallic. They took a dive among MB favorites later in the decade when they became TOO common on other brands. While red interiors compliment lighter exterior colors, softer neutral choices have faired better. Black was the best seller even for SLs during the early 1990s recession. Silver returned to the top in 2000.

Each year industry-wide surveys are released to the public ranking most popular car colors, and MB shares its “best selling” colors with their franchised retail stores when they commit to future inventory. These annual changes make any single answer to your question less than conclusive.

Adding to this, applying today’s favorites to a 1986 car “doesn’t look right” and hurts the car’s value, all else being equal.

As a car associated with quality, overall preservation influences me far more than color. In fact MB models are so instantly recognizable that they don’t “need” color to make a statement. I’ve personally liked MB in “industrial” colors that say “I am a machine and I don’t apologize for it.

Many of the SL Mercedes-Benz questions are answered in our SL Market Letter, published about 12 times per year. For a nominal subscription fee, you can have SL Mercedes price trends and exclusive SL articles written by author, John R. Olson – publisher of the SL Experience book. You can subscribe to the  SL Market Letter here.

Kevin Stanley asks:

I have a 1985 380Sl;  full load, heated seats, ac, hard top, etc.  I am the second owner and the car is all original with 92,000 km’s. It is teal with natural leather; 8 out of 10 condition. How can I determine the value today? Are they going up or down in value?
Thanks in advance, Kevin

John Olson replies:

All cars, even the greatest collector cars, depreciate painfully during their first decade (or two) of life… providing inadequate differentiation for rough treatment vs. careful preservation. Your mid-1980s car is currently in what I call its “limbo” years, when it is neither a newer car or old enough to be taken seriously as a collector car. The “hot” decade of appreciating older cars now is the 1960s — interesting models of all brands, especially convertibles (the safest bet to appreciate in all marques). Cars of the 1970s are just starting to be “cherry-picked” for the best preserved originals at low prices. Your decade is coming but in the meantime it is under-valued by the marketplace as compared to what it would cost to reincarnate a tired example to the condition of your car.

The only good news is that your car’s value has reached it’s “plateau” value range for the remainder of its time in “limbo”. That’s a plus for a buyer, or for you if you should decide you’re better off keeping it and enjoying it. Granted it doesn’t get the MPG we like to see today but you will lose more in annual depreciate on most newer cars that you spend annually in extra gas in any 1980s SL, plus you’re likely to be safer in a bad accident in an old Mercedes that many newer cars. Things to think about.

So, no, your 380SL should not go down further in value next year or even 10 years, than you can get this year, assuming proper care, no driving in salty seasons, etc. Finding it’s precise value would require a professional appraisal but the range is likely to be $6,000 to $12,000 –wholesale to retail, in my USA market. You didn’t mention your country of residence. Relatively speaking, what I’ve said here applies anywhere in the world.

Many of the SL Mercedes-Benz questions are answered in our SL Market Letter, published about 12 times per year. For a nominal subscription fee, you can have SL Mercedes price trends and exclusive SL articles written by author, John R. Olson – publisher of the SL Experience book. You can subscribe to the  SL Market Letter here.

Nicolas asks:

I have a 300sl 1986 Model drives fantastic it is currently Metalic silver/Green with Green Interior . . . eerrrre – purchased the car because it was very well looked after and was in need of a new owner. I purchased it for  24,000 AUD. (In pounds – estimated to be 8000.00.)  I am never planning to stage it as a prize original Mercedes in any competition. But if I were to change the combination what are my 3 best options? Red with Palomino interior, Silver with Black or Blue, Black  – I just don’t like the Green. Also would I be increasing the value of this type of car, decreasing or making no difference to the value overall? Please help as I am trying to settle a debate.

John Olson answers:

I always lament a car’s first “respray” as they are never as durable (even with famous brands of paint they bruise much easier) and rarely duplicate original quality (being either too good or not good enough).

Not liking a color is another matter.* Personally, if the paint is well preserved as you’ve describe, I would be a dutiful custodian and live with it; Not what you want to hear I’m sure but the risks mentioned in the first paragraph are very real as original paint is applied in special, electronic spray booths before the interior, wiring harness(es) and engine are installed… making full stripping, re-coverage and total adherence during a color change extremely labor intensive; removal of all glass, chrome, doors, rubber, etc. Shortcut these steps and the result will look bad immediately rather than 18 months later when bruises and chipped accumulate.  *Green is not as popular as world-wide as it is in Germany however in your country fewer green cars are sold, largely balancing supply and demand. Psychologists tell us the two colors most comforting to the human eye are green and blue, as they appear some much in nature. An interesting side not is that collectors of 300SL Gullwings today often seek out the rarest colors offered on these cars when doing frame-off show-caliber restorations, as there are so many Silver, white and red 300SLs. Grass is alway greener on the other side of the fence? No bun intended.

If your car’s paint was already hopelessly weathered and partially repainted due to fender-benders, I would say for it… change the color without a high-end, detailed stripping, as the unique charm of a well preserved original paint job has already passed.

The 1974 – 1989 R107 body six cylinder SLs are fantastic cars. There is a lot to be said for Mercedes-Benz six cylinder engines generally. Spunky, durable, economical, easy to maintain and service. And, the most famous and valuable SL of the all is a Mercedes-Benz six.

Bob Hill asks:

I have a 1983 Mercedes-Benz 380SL.  I want to lower it and remove the floating ride.  How would you recommend this be done?  Lowering Springs, shocks, etc.

John Olson Answers:

Bob and anyone else with a 1971 through 1989 SL; “fixing” your car’s height and too-soft ride is pretty straightforward. Most SLs delivered in the USA have a softer ride than expected for a sporty car. SL Market has developed sets of four progressive-rate springs especially for the R107 Body SLs, with slight differences based on weight of the particular year and accessories on-board. We offer two versions, the second being full sport springs (not progressively firmer) for people using his or her SL Mercedes-Benz for autocross and rally driving. Neither version is harsh but management of the car’s weight is clearly improved. Curb height can also be lowered for no additional fee as we make the sets to order, and the time to do it is about the same regardless of personalization. Phone 612-377-0155 to determine the best set for your vehicle.

- John R. Olson

Many of the SL Mercedes-Benz questions are answered in our SL Market Letter, published about 12 times per year. For a nominal subscription fee, you can have SL Mercedes price trends and exclusive SL articles written by author, John R. Olson – publisher of the SL Experience book. You can subscribe to the  SL Market Letter here.

Phil asks:

I have a 1981 500SLC I would like to put a 5-speed (manual) trans in the car ….any suggestions.

John Olson replies:

My suggestions? Forget about it! The improvement would be minimal for a whole lota’ cost and monkey business. Gertrag made (may still make) a strong five speed manual box that AMG offered during the 1980s… priced at $14,000 then! I still have their little price book that listed about 50 options with prices…  that being one. The “cheapest way to do it would be buy a1983 – 1986 Euro 500SL with one of these manual five speeds as a donor car, swap out what you want and sell the donor.

On the down side, you will dilute the long term appreciation of a rare car; substancial if it is a nice car. I consider the 500SLC to be the most significant collectible Mercedes-Benz of that decade… the decade of the 1970s… even though your car is an ‘81. You already have the four speed automatic, which in itself enhances that car’s value.

I have done transmission and gear-ratio and rear axle ratio transplants on a number of cars for racing & rally purposes, and assure you the benefits gear changes are elusive and application specific. Every choice is a compromise. Street or track use, under or over 100 miles per hour driving, stock weight or lightened? The 500SLC, as one of the few homologated rally race cars Mercedes-Benz ever sold to the public, is a very hard car to improve upon. Only 2,769 were built and less have been found 50 in the USA. It is the lowest series production car built by Mercedes- Benz in that decade. My suggestion: keep it original.

Many of the SL Mercedes-Benz questions are answered in our SL Market Letter, published about 12 times per year. For a nominal subscription fee, you can have SL Mercedes price trends and exclusive SL articles written by author, John R. Olson – publisher of the SL Experience book. You can subscribe to the  SL Market Letter here.

Kimberly Damer   [stanfordalumni]

Hi – I was wondering what the fair market price - in a private sale - would be for a 1991 560 SEC COUPE (last yr. they made that model) WITH ONLY 50,000 miles – mint condition – black on black – originally priced at $110,000. Always garaged. My mom’s car for many years. Thanks.

OLSON RELPIES: Kim, Hmmm. Maybe $15,000. Maybe $10,000. All well preserved Mercedes-Benz of that period are undervalued at this stage in their life. That S-Class was very well built. BUT… today’s priority is on economy more than quality or luxury. Even safety of occupants in your SEC is higher than most any other car buyable for $15,000….   yet more people would put their money on a lighter, smaller car that would not withstand a rough accident.

Today’s Price range for your model may seem large, between $4,000 and $18,000, but is entirely justified as a poor one can’t be fixed for the price difference of a good one. An example with less than 15,000 miles might command even more that $18,000. 50,000 miles is desireable but not low. If you find a buyer that really digs the color, and condition and paint are original the car “might” bring $15,000. If you are in a position to walk away from $10,000 you could try for $15,000. Another tack would be to tell “bidders” that their $10,000 price is too low… your “buy it now” price is $14,000 (or whatever). If they want to gamble that you won’t find a buyer in 30 days… you might then lower your price… or if you get the raise you’re expecting you’ll keep it!  If they really like it and can afford it, they’ll not gamble on losing it, and pay your price now.

The 560SEC is a wonderful car. A worthy family treasure. Yours WILL reappreciate in value, slowly in future decades if you have an indoor place to keep it, give it 1,500+ miles per year of exercise, week-end getaways, car club socializing and preservation as a long term heirloom. It is not a cost-free  asset; only you and your family can decide if it is worth more to your lives than the $10,000/$15,000 you can get short term. You could buy another one to relive your past…  twenty years from now. Lots of people do that too.

Let me know what you do!  Good luck.